Wriging

Actually, I'll just leave a comment here, if you don't mind. (I get points for this, you know.)

The story definitely looks like it was written in 20 minutes. Its passive tone and awkward descriptions make it a bit of a chore to read, and doesn't look planned past the point of "here, use these ideas."

Conceptually, I love it: take a few statements and weave them into a story in 20 minutes. The exercise is such that it amplifies writing deficiencies while suppressing the positive. Additionally, it teaches you to think faster, though I'm not sure whether this is good or bad. I remember participating in something like this when I was a music composer "in a previous life" (if I may borrow a turn of phrase from a prominent 9Ruler), and while fun, it didn't do much other than help me see the areas I was most deficient in. It never actually helped in in fixing anything.

Still, it's a bad story and you should kill yourself right now in apology.

(Not really. Feel free to ignore any or all parts of this.)

Thanks for your "honesty". Much appreciated. Though if you could elaborate upon "Its passive tone and awkward descriptions", it would probably be more useful.

Alright, here's more detail, paragraph by paragraph. For the record, what I mentioned were your two biggest weaknesses. Other than that, I couldn't see much, for the reasons stated above (this type of exercise doesn't lend itself to such detailed inspection).

(1)Antonio hurried to get into the taxi. (2)There were about ten minutes remaining, as he recalled that till about a fifty years ago, when he was just ten, how most of Monte Carlo, the wealthiest quarter of Monaco, used to be well connected by trams. (3)Now even though he barely had money for the fare, he had no choice but this taxi.

Sentence 1: How was Antonio hurrying? Did he push an old lady out of the way? Was he frantically opening the door? Was he swift? Did he stumble on himself? Was the door open and did he just jump in? Also, "Antonio hurried to get into the taxi" is in passive tone. Something is happening TO something. "to get into the"

Sentence 2: Run-on sentence. This thing gives us details as delicately as bricks through a glass window. Try slipping it up. Also, don't use "till". This is a preference of mine, but unless you're using colloquialism it just looks amateur.

Sentence 3: Just... awkward. Maybe it's the placing? Good ending to the paragraph, though, since it connects you to what's happening next, but then with a strong enough entrance this isn't really needed.

Try this (and this won't be all that great of an attempt, just the first thing I can think of):

Antonio hurried into the back seat of the taxi, making sure to slip in before the older lady waiting along with him noticed. He checked his pocket again, making sure he had enough to get him to the Larvotto. Though he had barely enough, taking the taxi wasn't a matter of choice.

Monaco wasn't always this way. Momentarily, his mind flashed back fifty years, when most of Monte Carlo was connected by trams. While as a kid he never liked riding them, now, feeling in his pocket, he missed them. I would have had enough, he though. Now... just enough for the trip.

"To the Larvotto, sil vouz plait," he said, while sliding into the seat and bumbling the door shut.

Granted, this was probably a bit more than you had time for, and I would have probably approached the subject in a completely different manner (I may pick up the challenge just to see what I come up with), but you get my point. The same issues I mentioned (1 and 2) could be seen throughout the whole thing: too much description too quickly, causing run on sentences, and an abuse of of "to be" Reading it I felt attacked by it.

I can get into more detail, but I think you get the point.

sumedh07 ... you've just been GNORBED!
[Feel privileged]

Antonio's mind flashed back fifty years. Monte Carlo hadn't always been like this, he remembered. Back then anyone could get anywhere in the city -- indeed, in the whole of Monaco -- via trams. He had never liked riding them, but now, feeling in his pocket, he wished he could. I would have had more than enough, Now... just barely.

You know, I'd been thinking about this damn paragraph all morning. Still not all that good, I'll admit, but... *urgh* Talk about not letting things go.

Your short story isn't breathtaking. But it is a good exercise, and kudos for working out your writing muscles.

There were about ten minutes remaining, as he recalled that till about a fifty years ago, when he was just ten, how most of Monte Carlo, the wealthiest quarter of Monaco, used to be well connected by trams.

The above sentence is at risk of collapsing on itself because it doesn't follow a basic rule of writing long sentences. Consider, for instance, this long sentence:

I fly past the smaller shops, past the men drinking wine on the benches, past the old men playing dominoes, past the restaurants and the Arabs selling clothes and rugs and shoes, past the twins my age, Ahok and Awach Ugieth, two very kind and hardworking girls carrying bundles of kindling on their heads, Hello, Hello, we say, and finally I step into the darkness of my father's stores, completely out of breath.

Why does it work? Why does it flow logically and not collapse inward?

It branches to the right. Branching to the right is a very important part of writing, and is very easy - all you have to do is to put the subject and the verb as early on in the sentence as possible. It acts as an anchor and prevents the sentence from drifting out of control.

In the 2nd sentence the 'I fly' is placed at the start, and the rest of the sentence branches out from it.

In your sentence, 'as he recalled' is sandwiched between details. You can either:

1, learn to write long (sentences)
2, write short, snappy sentences
3, skip the unnecessary (to the narrative) details

Either one will work. And that's what makes writing so individual - one man's way of tackling a story will be different from another's.

Let me try short sentences:

There were about ten minutes remaining. A random memory bubbled up: that of Monte Carlo, the wealthiest part of Monaco, being well connected by trams. But that was 50 years ago. Seen from the eyes of a ten year old boy.

PS: Gnorb's advice is solid stuff. Keep going at it, and soon you'll improve. Good luck!

Gnorb and Shadowsun both gave solid advice.

For a twenty minute exercise, it was pretty good. When I was in college, our professors made us do twenty minute exercises like these. By the end of the semester, we were completely different writers.

Where did you find this exercise? I'd like to know because I would love to get into this again. I think some of my writing skills are starting to diminish now that I'm not writing as much as I used to and would love to participate in something like this.

Thanks all of you guys...

By the way, Gnorb, I do get your point. But the thing is this: In a short story, I am not too keen on giving the details of how Antonio hurried into the taxi. And the sorts...

But other than that, I agree to most of what all of you have said. This was in fact my first ever short story, let alone being one limited by a twenty minute time I set for myself.
I in fact prefer giving the kind of details that Gnorb suggested, which I do in my novel. But the way I work is usually very different. While writing my novel, I go back and read each sentence maybe 10 times over 5 days, and each time I am likely to change it, or even the concerned paragraph completely, if I am not completely comfortable with it.

But when I have a twenty minute restriction, I clearly don't perform my peak.

I am not too keen on giving the details of how Antonio hurried into the taxi.

You know, something I've learned is that what a person does -- how the act, how they move, how they handle certain things -- says more about what's going on in their mind and what type of person they are than what they're actually thinking. (I treat characters the same way I observe people, where their every move reveals something about them.) Of course, that's just the way I see things. It's my forte, whereas my weaknesses... well, you saw my sample. I did that in just a couple of minutes, with no revision. It shows some of the issues I tend to be weak in, the issues I have to edit and reedit in order to get right.

That said what you asked originally was what we thought of the short story. The answer was that I didn't like it, but that was OK because this type of exercise generally covers up what you do well (which you bring out with editing) and emphasizes what you don't do well (which you remove with editing). Also, you're apparently used to writing longer stories, which means you'll get trapped into writing in that style the first few times (Edit: that you write short stories. (See, this is one of my weaknesses here: assumption, causing a lack in clarity.) For me it's the other way around: I get trapped into writing short stories, then I have to flesh things out from there.

But when I have a twenty minute restriction, I clearly don't perform my peak.

You're right. In fact, you perform in exercises like this at your valley. The point of exercises like these are to see where you're weak, so you know what sort of issues and techniques you're prone to using.

Try this: look at the weakest points here. Take a look at what people have said, and apply that to your longer writing. You'll likely find areas you can improve based on what you learned here.

(FYI: Yes, I'm very well aware about the differences between short stories and novels. In fact, Michael A. Stackpole dedicated one of his "The Secrets" newsletters (issue #77) to those differences based on a short conversation we had wherein I asked him a number of questions on the matter.)

Keep at it. If nothing else, exercises like these are fun. In fact, your note inspired me to do much the same.

yeah, I noticed already ;)

Ok. Here's http://www.passerine.net/archives/the-shooting-star/ another attempt.

sorry. forgot to add the link.

Feedback solicited...

Is it really a (short) story? It seems to me like part of a longer work - the first chapter to a novel, perhaps.

It's an improvement: there are still long sentences everywhere (this your writing style, then?) and a penchant for stuffing in as much detail as possible into each sentence ... but most of them work, if a little awkward.

(The above was a long sentence of my own, heh.)

I wouldn't call it short story. Narrative exercise, perhaps. But not short story.

Can't comment on the plot. Too little detail and actual ... story. I'm flailing my arms here, so I hope you understand what I mean. But to be fair you only have 20 minutes to execute an idea.

'Silence' is repeated twice in the last 3 paragraphs.

Blood rushed into her veins, and her arteries almost swelled as she lost hold of her senses.

Nothing major, but it sounds awkward.

Love the ending. It's a good setup/first chapter: makes me want to read more.

There. That's about all I have to say. Gnorb?

Now that is being cavillous, is it?

Heh. No, I agree that it can be a starting to a bigger piece. In actual fact, I have started to write a bigger piece from this. But, I am not sure what you are intending towards, my saying it's not a short story. It's a narrative to a particular incident, and in fact it has a particular philosophy too, if you explore the layers. The plot is well conceived, according to me, because just the superficiality is not what is being narrated.
So to say, this can serve as a story of that particular incident, no?

In fact, these are a few excerpts from wikipedia about a short story:

a swiftly-sketched situation that comes rapidly to its point.

And

Usually, a short story will focus on only one incident, has a single plot, a single setting, a limited number of characters, and covers a short period of time.

What I am basically saying is that you are perfectly right in saying that it could be used for a bigger piece of fiction. But to say there is too little story sounds, umm, a bit captious to me.

Lessee. You're not demonstrating a particular theme. You're not bringing us to the edge of our seats. If I concede and say that it's a short story, then I'll say (blatant honesty here) that it's a lousy one.

That's why I regard it as a narrative exercise (and a bliddy solid one at that). Just personal preference, mind. That way I won't have to review the plot, since there barely is one. I don't know the driving forces behind the characters, I don't get inside their heads, I don't feel inclined to discuss them and dissect their actions.

Therefore I shall focus on the writing, and me regarding it as a narrative exercise is my way of refraining from saying anything about the story.

It was written in 20 minutes, after all.

In short: I'm basically saying let's not get embroiled in a definition debate, shall we? Because it's not helpful to the purpose of this note.

BTW, sumedh, you've not answered Josh's question. Where do you get these writing exercises? Interesting stuff, it. Won't mind trying it out and asking everyone here to review.

oh definitely. I skipped that question, it seems.
there is this widget on the iGoogle homepage, which gives you random phrases from its database.

No, I am not intending to get "embroiled" in a definition debate here. Esp. not since literary criticism is not people's niche here. There is a lot of captiousness in the air, if you ask me...

If a reader doesn't "see" a theme behind a story, that betrays information about him/her...not about the story itself.

Anyway...thanks you guys for taking out time to respond to this note. Unless you are dying to, there is no particular need any more to reply here.
There are more literary-sensed people for taking "solid" feedback. My university's professors, for example...who know what a short story actually is.

I haven't responded to this note yet, because I don't really care to get into criticism of amateur writing and others can probably do that better. But I think you're being rather ungrateful in your reception of the "captiousness" you asked for yourself.

You're a new member here, and you do not know what any of our niches are. So how can you possibly ignore (that's essentially what you've done; though you haven't said it, your tone betrays you) everyone's critique, claiming we don't know what we are talking about?

Your only response to one such reply by Gnorb was a single line, "yeah, I noticed already ;)" and then accused another member of cavilling. What the hell is that?

If you care to have a look around, you'll notice that 9rules does in fact have a writing community and, unsurprisingly, at least two of its members are writers or editors. (I don't know them all very well, but I'm fairly certain the number is actually four.) That is their profession; they do it for a living. Add to that the thousands of Notes members, and I'm sure you'll find more than a few other writers and otherwise qualified people. If I were them, I'd take great offense at having my advice ignored by someone claiming I don't know what I'm talking about.

It sounds to me like you wrote a fairly bad piece of prose (i haven't read either, the first sentence of each was enough to put me off), called it a short story, and used a self-imposed time constraint as an excuse for its low quality, then expected to have praise heaped upon you. You haven't received that, and are now claiming we are ignorant. That's no way to react when someone has taken time out of their day to do exactly what you asked them to do.

As far as I can tell, English is not your first language, or it is and you don't have a particularly well developed aptitude for it--evidenced by your awkward insertion of "ten dollar words" in places they don't really belong (see: cavillous, captious; perhaps you should read a different part of the dictionary?) I suggest that you read some literature on the art of writing, have another stab at it, and don't come back here asking for critique. Perhaps ask your University professor instead--I'm sure he knows better what a short story is than a real writer does.

Just don't call him, or anyone else, cavillous if you don't hear what you want to hear.

Edit: Oh, and link sounds like a load of bollocks, if you ask me. Particularly when quoted in this context--you came here asking a community of what you appear to think of as laymen for their criticism. How can you then quote a load of nonsense about laymen being unqualified to give literary critique and expect to be taken seriously?

yeah, well for starters a person starts from being an amateur. no one is born a pro.
when someone is being cavillous, there is no other way around it.

Even I know loads of people who make a living out of writing, and do it successfully.
It doesn't take a bunch of self-proclaimed ego-bubbled "9rulers" to define what is literature...

I'd be really appreciative if you could leave a comment there regarding your opinion.

That turned sour quite quickly. And to think of the time, effort and bandwidth spent by Gnorb et. al. on this.

Actually, you should be ashamed.

I'm not saying you're a shit writer for the sake of calling you a shit writer. I can see that you're an amateur. My point is don't ignore people who take time out of their day to help you be better.

And I don't think the person in question was being cavilous at all. He made more than a few perfectly good points that I completely agree with. It was you that was in the wrong, by being insulting.

If you know so many successful writers, why don't you ask them for critique instead?

It doesn't take a bunch of self-proclaimed ego-bubbled "9rulers" to define what is literature...

Again, this raises the question of why exactly you're even here. I've refrained from resorting to outright insults, but since you have just insulted me personally, I will say that you sound like a jackass. If that's all you have to say about the community, I'd be inclined to say that perhaps you should get the hell out of here. But I won't.

Do consider it though.

If a reader doesn't "see" a theme behind a story, that betrays information about him/her...not about the story itself.

In my opinion, it is entirely the writer's burden to convey the message or meaning within the piece of literature. While some readers will always fail to pick up on it, something that is well written will get its point across to the majority. You can't blame the reader for not understanding what you are writing because they are only able to work with what you give them. If many readers are not coming away with the message you intended, there is a good chance that it really does betray information about the story itself.

If you are writing for yourself, you can hide the message as deeply as you would like. If you are writing for others, you need to make sure that they don't have to work too hard to find it. Once again, the reader is never to blame for a writer's failure to effectively deliver a theme or meaning. The only way you can progress as a writer is through your response to criticism. If you ever want to become an excellent author, you had better learn that you can't pick and choose who is going to buy that novel of yours, and you can't refute their criticism once you reach that stage.

shadowsun7: There. That's about all I have to say. Gnorb?

Gnorb is busy teaching his dog that it's NOT OK to pee all over the carpet. Or on the kitchen floor. Or in her crate. ESPECIALLY when she has purposely held it for an hour outside so she could race into the house and do it in there.

sumedh07:

Anyway...thanks you guys for taking out time to respond to this note. Unless you are dying to, there is no particular need any more to reply here.

Uhm, not dying to, so OK, I won't. I'll read the rest of these notes and see where things got nasty. Sorry that they did, though. This was turning out to be a much better thread than I'd anticipated.

Note: Norbert 'Gnorb' Cartagena has made his living as a writer since 2000, including stints as the editor in chief of various websites and magazines. He currently lives in Hurricane-Loving South Florida with his wife, The Wife, and Daisy, the carpet peeing dog. Oh, and 'e 'as a blawg, too.

/i can has sukzesfiul writing carreer?

OK, I lied, I will comment. Pretty much what everyone here's said: it seems like it's a part of a longer work, a snapshot of something. Frankly, it sort of reminds me of Kafka, perhaps even Sartre.

And that's all I have to say.

@Gnorb - you crack me up. Good luck with Daisy. :)

Anyway...thanks you guys for taking out time to respond to this note. Unless you are dying to, there is no particular need any more to reply here.

As an "self-proclaimed ego-bubbled 9ruler", these are my forums...I'll respond when I want.

This is 9rules...it's not our job to coddle you and tell you what you want to hear. You asked for feedback, it was given to you. People took time out of their day to read what you wrote and give an honest opinion. As a writer you are seeing that your perception and the reader's perception of your work differs. Greatly. That's a problem if you are a serious writer.

I mean really, don't insult the people that YOU asked opinions from. If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen.

No offense taken, guys. He'll have to learn to accept constructive criticism ... it's a stage all writers go through sooner or later.

Perhaps 9rules is just his first step to learning that hallowed skill.

To sumedh: I wish you well in your writing. There's a fine line between self belief and self delusion, but that's a line most of us are still walking, still finding.

Good luck.

PS: It may seem pretentious to defend my accomplishments, so I'll just let my writing speak for itself.

In case you haven't seen it yet: This guy has penned this blog entry, whereby we (me, mostly, by the sounds of it) are accused of being elitist racists.

I'll refrain from telling you my initial reaction, as I'd rather not resort to profanities. I'm going to leave a comment though.

I did leave a reply on his blog, but as I expected, it was deleted. Having anticipated that, I saved a copy and I'll paste it here. Hopefully anyone clicking through from his blog will see it.

What a wonderfully entertaining load of bollocks this is.

I'll start at the beginning.

> On the internet, which boasts of more than 50 million blogs, a group of 300 odd people, inflamed by their egos, consider themselves to be the elite few: the only blogs worth reading, and the only people who know what they are talking about. Or so they fancy themselves to be.
>
> [...]
>
> So this community(9rules.com), which goes by the rhetorical oxymoron of a tag line ‘Quality Loves Company’, believes (with all its imagined sincerity) that only 300 blogs out of 50 million in the world are worth their existence.

It is at this point--yes, that early--that it becomes clear you are very much mistaken, and have little idea of what you are talking about.

I've never been a particularly staunch defender of the 9rules "mission", so you can be assured that this is a mostly unbiased response, but in this instance, you have grossly misrepresented 9rules. 9rules has never claimed to collect the only blogs worth reading, merely a selection of what they deem to be the pick of the crop.

If you happen across a Strawberry farm claiming to have "the best strawberries for miles around", you know that can't possibly be true, for they cannot surely have inspected every single strawberry in the vicinity, but you can trust that what strawberries they do offer are of a good enough quality that they are proud of them. 9rules is this strawberry farm.

I see no reason to dwell any further on this point, as it is not the point of your entry. Rest assured that you are very much mistaken.

> Perhaps it is because of this, then, that this “friendly and helpful” nature of 9rulers, makes them treat budding writers following their passion and dreams [...] by calling them “shit writers”.

I assume you are speaking of me here, in which case you have quoted me completely and grossly out of context, and I'm not even going to bother justifying it.

> These are the ego-bubbled people who openly [...] discriminate others racially, ethnically, and culturally: deeming without a proper basis an Indian writer writing in English to be some sort of an incapable imbecile, by telling him that English is not his first language

Again, should I assume it is me you are speaking of here?

Are you actually making a conscious effort to twist everything I have said into some sort of racist remark, or is this what you really think? Because (I see no reason to continue to be polite, since you have just called me a racist) only an idiot could draw that from what I said.

My actual response was considerably less offensive. I merely suggested that English might not be your first language, or that you may not be very literate in the language. And having read all of your notes, and some of your blog, I think this is a perfectly fair supposition. Do please feel free to correct me though. But don't accuse me of being a fucking racist because I noticed your English isn't great.

I have nothing to say about the rest of this. It's just bullshit upon bullshit. I would urge any of your readers that have read this to click through to the exchange in question before coming to the conclusion that 9rules is full of racist bigots.

Yes, I got angry toward the end. But I think it was justified.

Edited: Nested blockquotes not playing nice.

Nice job in editing the comment when posting here, Rich! ;)

You have displayed the immense profoundness with which you have mastered this English language that you are so instigated to defend: I am sure you'll win a lot of debates all over the world when you start with calling the opponent's perspective "a load of bollocks" and end with calling it "bullshit after bullshit".

Shows your moral, lingual, behavioural upbringing. It is shameful that even to this day, you are sticking to your racial lineage.

All I will wish you all, (after being heartily wished a lot of misfortune, hard times and rejections by people who cannot tolerate an amateur asking critical analysis of his work, who in turn replied not with that but a sheer motive to pull down under any circumstances), is good luck in living with your consciences.

If at all you are left with any, by now...

Thank you. I thought I did a fine job of replacing blockquote elements with right angled brackets. The rest of the comment is perfectly intact. If Wordpress allowed you to view deleted comments, you would know that.

:)

And please, if your only response is to pick on my profanities and to call me a racist, I cannot possibly take anything you have to say seriously. I'd go as far as to say it is you that is behaving like a racist, by accusing me of prejudice when any fool can see I have exhibited no such prejudice.

I may well be left only with my conscience. But at least I don't look like a tool on the Internet!

I wish you luck. You're going to need it.

I'll post my responses here, since sumedh07 decided to instead delete my reply. Also, comments have been closed, so any insults and accusations therein cannot be countered.

First you call me a thief, then you call me petty. I suggest you grow the hell up, you pusillanimous jackass. You're obviously fettered by your own immaturity.

----- Response 1 -----

From the article: What is most blaring of all this, is that one of the 9rulers stole this writer’s particular idea of an exercise - writing impromptu short stories on randomly given phrases with a time limitation, without giving any sort of proper credit.

Yes, Hi. I’m the guy who apparently stole your brilliant idea of taking random topics and writing an impromptu short story about it. Stole. YOUR brilliant idea. YOUR. Idea.

Uhm… yeeeeeah, we’ll go with that.

You know, by Aaron Sorkin’s standards, you just called me a great writer. (“Good writers borrow from other writers. Great writers steal from them outright.”) I’ll take your accusation as a complement! Doubtful that you were complementing me, but whatever. Because no one else in the history of writing (or any other art, for that matter) has ever thought about doing the same: taking random elements, and withing a specified period of time created something.

Sounds like when I cook: “Honey, what do we have in the pantry? Uh huh. What time do we need to leave by? Uh huh… so I have 15 minutes, a can of cream of mushroom and artichokes, gotcha.”

Didn’t you, by your own admission, say that this was a challenge given to you by… someone? I don’t believe I ever saw a source, however. And to be fair, the original idea insofar as this story was concerned, including the methodology, came from an episode of Mur Lafferty’s “I Should Be Writing” podcast. Your exercise just showed me how someone else went about doing the same thing. (Does that count as prior art? Hmm..)

By the way, does it count as a derivative idea if I decided to not observe the time limit? Because, you know, I didn’t. Is it somehow suddenly NOT your idea, and my own entirely? Or do we share in it, as we both partook? What are the responsibilities do we have to each other? If you want, we can trace this down to the point where no idea is really ours, and that we do nothing more than combine within our minds the ideas we get from other people. Are those then their ideas? Are they ours when we changed them?

I suppose then that we must therefore define “proper credit” here. Was my admitting in a public forum that “your note inspired me to do much the same” with a link to how I was going about it, in the same note that you put your idea up not counted as as proper credit? What would you consider “proper credit”? A link to your story, which I likely not have read and certainly not responded had you not written a note asking what we thought? Sorry, but again, though your showed how someone took an idea which existed before either of us was born, the thought originally entered my mind, in the realm of writing, from someone else entirely. You were just the coin that tipped the scales.

To be fair, I’ve added a link to the thread which inspired me to use that method.

Sorry that you found your experience so negative. However, by your own admission, you were going to be “really appreciative of critical analysis and feedback.” We gave you critical analysis and feedback, then suddenly, as if someone had hurt your feelings, you decide people there are rude and complain about it on your own blog. Does this make you a liar, or simply a cry baby?

Seriously, if you’re going to put your work out to the public for critique you better damn well get used to negative feedback, because you are going to get it. And obviously, you still can’t handle negative critique from strangers, so ease up, at least until your skin toughens a bit more, alright? Seems your ego still bruises too easily.

In all honestly, I were you, for the moment, I’d stick to getting critiques from people I knew and I knew could write, instead of putting it up on a public forum somewhere, ESPECIALLY since you’ve proven you can’t handle negative feedback. You don’t know what kind of advice you’re getting anyway, or from who. Why should you even listen to them? Do they write like you want to write? I don’t know about you, but I’m very picky about who I decide to take advice from. Critique me all you want, tell me I suck all you want, but if I don’t give half a rat’s ass about what you think then what does it matter?

Always keep this in mind: no matter what you do 20% of people will love you for it and 20% will hate you for it. Your job is to swing the remaining 60% in your general direction. And you won’t always succeed.

I’d wish you luck in the future, but frankly all I can wish you is some misfortune and hard times. Only then will you grow and live up to your true potential, when you’re looking for serious critiques and not just pats on the head.

“The only thing worse than being talked about is not being talked about.” — Oscar Wilde

I wonder, what will you do when you receive your first rejection letter? What about your tenth? What about your fiftieth? Remember, even the best got rejected a few times. The successful ones just kept going.

----- Response 2 -----

After his response to my deleted comment: To GNORB: Thank you for wishing me a lot of hard times and rejections. Probably it is common for people in your lineage to get discouraged by that, but unfortunately it’s not going to work with me.

Actually the wish for a lot of hard times and rejections is a wish for you to get stronger, a wish for you to persevere, and to eventually succeed. Nothing is more ruinous to a person than instant success, since it means the person never develops the roots necessary to stand against adversity.

Of course, the fact that you've deleted my reply here -- one which involved not any cursing nor amateur mudslinging (unlike the first few paragraphs of this article) -- shows your complete and utter lack of maturity. Instead of taking it and growing from it, you complain that people are not being nice, and that they're self-aggrandized egotists. A glass jaw won't bode well for you, nor will a thin skin. Unless, that is, you plan to stay an amateur.

I'd go as far as to say it is you that is behaving like a racist, by accusing me of prejudice when any fool can see I have exhibited no such prejudice.

Yes, race wealthy rich, fools can see that you have exhibited no such prejudice. Only fools can see that.

Gnorb: It speaks volumes when a person has to resort to profane and vulgar adjectives when found at a requirement of proving point.
Volumes. Against you.

Falling back on profanities again? Why don't you present a real argument so we can take you seriously?

And I have no idea what the hell you are talking about with this "race wealthy rich" nonsense. Please explain. Because right now, it just sounds like you're calling me a racist because, what, I'm white?

Actually, Gnorb, it wasn't from you where the sourness originated. It was sheerly from the captiousness of ShadowSun. And, later on, added on by the vividly racist responses of the wealthy Rich.
But you flexed and bent that way yourself, somewhere along the way. So subtly, indeed, that this merging was not even visible.

Yet, I sincerely respected your analytical statements in the beginning, but anyone can see that they have later turned into amateur mudslinging.

Of course, I realize I am worthlessly wasting my time here. I do not expect any of the cult members or followers to support any of their own brethren anyway, so all future comments from 9rulers or 9rule lovers are merely predictable.

This will be the last of me you'll see around this part of the net.
Yes, shout your jubilant Good Riddances.
It was indeed foolish of me to try and debate with cult members, when the adjudicators themselves are members or lovers of the same cult.

The more rational and unbiased minds have opined their judgements to me, so I do not consider it necessary to come here again and see the course which this cult-bitten note might take...

And, by the bye, I do once again say to Gnorb that most of your advice was well taken. I follow in your belief of failure before success. In deed, I believe them to be sidekicks, not opposites. But the mannerism in which this advice was delivered, was what was not taken nicely by me. If that is immaturity, well so be it...

And while leaving, Rich, it isn't because you are white. It is because you hold beliefs, which you articulated, while being white.

Shouting innocence is going to give you nothing, except pardon from your cult members. Of which I frankly don't care anyway.

Sorry for disturbing all of you guys who replied to this note, from your slumber in your ego bubbles.

Take Care. :)

So it's the fact that my name is synonymous with wealth that makes me racist?

Got it.

Edit: Scrap that. It's because I hold beliefs! Now it makes sense.

Do yourself a favour and lose the ambiguity. Defend your accusations. Don't just come in here, call me a racist, then fuck off again.

Forgive me for losing my cool, Tyme etc., but good fucking riddance to you. I do not, and will not, accept being called a racist for no reason you seem able to intelligibly articulate. If you ask me, you're a fool and a jackass.

But you flexed and bent that way yourself, somewhere along the way. So subtly, indeed, that this merging was not even visible.

I think you better check your perception. My attitude never changed about this: I told you what I saw. You would do well to stop projecting your reality unto other people. This is a mark of low self esteem. (As is, by the way, self aggrandizement. Based on your blog post you apparently don't know the difference between the two.)

Actually here was my last comment, before all this went down:

OK, I lied, I will comment. Pretty much what everyone here's said: it seems like it's a part of a longer work, a snapshot of something. Frankly, it sort of reminds me of Kafka, perhaps even Sartre.

And that's all I have to say.

I said this because your short story really DID remind me of Kafka and Sarte, stylistically anyway. (This wasn't a good or bad thing, it just was.) It felt like it could have been a part of a longer story.

But thhen you went ahead and called me a thief on your blog, and denied me a chance to respond. I think that'd turn just about anyone sour, now wouldn't it?

The penultimate comment ("i can has sukzesful writing career?") was a straight rebuttal at your comment that you would be better served by the professional and successful writers you know, implying that no one here was but an egotistical blogger. I was informing you that you were indeed speaking with at least one successful writer (though actually multiple, if you look at some of the backgrounds here). Instead of, you know, saying something like "present company excluded" or directly addressing me when questionable items arose, you instead clumped everyone here together, insulted the whole lot, made assumptions when things were not clear, then went on to have a hissy fit on your blog, throwing a little pity party for yourself because people didn't like the comments that came back to you. Finally, you delete comments put there in rebuttal and block additional comments.

When your skin thickens some, come find me. I'll more than happily offer any views I can. You may or may not agree with them, but that's beside the point. Be aware that if something isn't good, I'll tell you that it isn't, and I'll tell you why, insofar as I can see it. Think of it as a favor: I'm not coddling you, I'm just telling you as I see it. If it's good, I'll tell you. If it isn't, the same.

There is nothing I can't stand more than, when someone doesn't get what they want, they pull the racist card:

These racist elitists need to be brought to the fore of sensitization today, in these new methods which are being developed for discrimination.

They will reply from this that one of the 9rules starting member, Tyme, is black, and hence they cannot be racist. Well, it certainly isn’t an unknown phenomenon for even black Americans discriminating against Asians.

Let's see, to racially discriminate I would have to know what he was in the first place, which I didn't until he called me a racist and I poked around to find out. Sorry, but that's libel Sumedh07 if you think I'm going to sit back and let you call me and these people that tried to help you racist elitists...well, you don't know me very well.

Rich, Gnorb, I get where you are coming from and you have every right to be pissed off. I'm sorry you guys had to be sucked into something like this giving honest feedback.

I wish I was rich... instead I'm just a poor college student. Can one of you wealthy 9rulers pay off my student loans? Please/Thanks! :P

Edit: All this over a short story written in 20 minutes...

Wow... just wow...

Whatever happened to the nice discourse from the classical musician thread? When did this turn so very wrong?
I think the train to crazytown got derailed somewhere outside of 9Rules junction.

I've had limited access to the web recently due to a screw up at my ISP, so this comment is a bit late and I apologize for bringing a note up that most are probably trying to forget by now. However, I feel compelled to speak my mind, as it involves ignorant slander, and on top of everything it applies to people I respect and consider my friends.

Regardless of your proclaimed absence from this thread, sumedh07, I know you're reading. I know you're reading because despite the way you've keenly twisted your well-doers words out of context, you know they're right. If they weren't right, you would welcome their comments on your blog as proof of your claims. You don't, because you know they'd prove you wrong.

You came here with the intent to get criticized. Like everyone would, you hoped for praise and pats on the back. Like the naive, you weren't prepared for mature and honest criticism.

Despite use of defensively sarcastic quoting of Gnorb's first comment, he provided you with critique and advice that was so good and informative that even I felt benefited and awarded him points for it (literally). That information should've benefited you tenfold as it was your text he was analyzing.

Similarly, shadowsun7's response detailed examples, concepts and advice directly applicable to — and quoting — your story. Both of them present their critique calmly and clearly with the intent of helping you become a better writer. Which apparently wasn't what you were looking for.

Here's an important part in all of this: You acknowledge their intent. You know this is good advice with good intent when you state in your reply

Thanks all of you guys...

This is also where you reveal that you're not open to criticism. Instead of simply stopping after acknowledging that Gnorb has a point, you start defending your story and excusing its poor state with reference to the manner in which it was written.

Gnorb replies with an even more informative comment along with links to extra reading material. What do you do? You come back for more. Not with revisions of your original story, but a new one. Brushing their advice off like it was sawdust.

Shadowsun7 offers more advice, even praises your story. What do you do? You start becoming defensive AGAIN, now starting to rave about definitions. Are you here to learn from feedback — or to fight back?

All of this boils down to the fact that you're apparently not looking to change your story. You like it the way it is (eg. your comment: "In a short story, I am not too keen on giving the details of how Antonio hurried into the taxi. And the sorts...").

All of this would have been ignorable, perhaps even excusable. If it weren't for the fact that you continue to insult the people trying to help you, which ends with an entire entry to slander the whole 9rules community, where you yourself state that:

any literary person would be aware that there are enormously diverse perspectives in literature, and about it.

So here, a couple of people sit at the helm “adjudicating” people underneath, and condemning in an insulting manner anything that doesn’t befit their individual taste.

If you know this, then why the hell are you surprised and defensive over the fact that people here have a different opinion of your story then you?

Let's look once more at what originally started this whole debate and your spiteful responses (which several 9r members explicitly tried to prevent): YOU CALLED PEOPLE WRONG AND INSULTED THEM FOR HAVING A DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVE THAN YOU.

You are accusing people of making a mistake that you made, not them. They were quite aware that you might not agree with their opinions, even if you were asking them for it. What they weren't aware of was that you'd turn out to be an ungrateful bastard, hellbent on kicking those in the face who help you tie your shoelaces (a very apt analogy, as your demeanor resembles that of a six year old).

Here are some more revealing quotes of yours:

"I am not too keen on giving the details of how Antonio hurried into the taxi."

"to say there is too little story sounds, umm, a bit captious to me."

"No, I am not intending to get "embroiled" in a definition debate here. Esp. not since literary criticism is not people's niche here. There is a lot of captiousness in the air, if you ask me..."

"There are more literary-sensed people for taking "solid" feedback. My university's professors, for example...who know what a short story actually is."

That last quote above is the worst. (And indeed was what originally incited the justifiably irritated follow-up replies from other users.)

After all the time people had spent giving you advice, links, reading material and generally helping you with TWO different works, without even knowing who you are, you spitefully reply that they have no idea what they're talking about.

Not only that, oh no, I wish it were for your sake — but that wasn't enough. You dedicate an entire entry to writing ignorant and untrue libel, not only about those that you disagreed with — but with the entire community, naming names and posting links. EVEN THOSE THAT YOU'D THANKED, ASKED TWICE FOR HELP, AND HAD ACKNOWLEDGED WERE TRYING HELP YOU.

How you managed to turn this into an issue of prejudice is beyond me. It's even further beyond me why you then decided to generalize the entire British population (eg. "Indians are globally active in teaching even Britishers their own English language, who spell surgeon as “sirgen”, and who do not even know basic mathematics.").

Rearranging the timeline of comments, forgetting to mention that you started the insults, flagging the "amateur" flag as if that justifies being ungrateful — basically twisting the truth to make the people involved look bad, even though you yourself originally acknowledged and thanked them for their help. Did you mention those helpful people and comments in your post? No. You conveniently left them out.

I've seen many people with issues against the 9rules community. I've seen many people with issues regarding criticism. You, however, have gone well beyond reason in your consequent efforts of venting that steam. I hope that one day you re-read this discussion, and your own entry, and send the people involved an apology. Entirely for your sake.

Dear rulers,

I have only just gotten up, and am clearly not in possession of all my senses yet. I believe it was this that led me to press the report link next to hthth's name, rather than the award points link.

Sorry about that.

Rich, you just about sent me crashing to the floor laughing.

I wouldn't have thought that possible in the context of this note.

For diffusing all that hate, I thank you. (And send you points)

*chuckles heartily*

As an Indian "9ruler", I am disgusted by my fellow countryman's behaviour and apologise for it.

Sumedh, a few months down the line, maybe even a year, you'll come back to this thread and realise that nobody here is, or was trying to be, a racist. Rich merely pointed out that from your writing one gets the impression that English is not your mother tongue. You asked for critique, and you got it. It seems what you were looking for was unconditional praise, not an appraisal of your work.

Everyone else, I believe you all have better things to do with your time.

Rich, I'm actually proud of you. Hangover must still be active from Mike's wedding.

I'll stop by here real quick to say that I cannot see what was so wrong, offensive, or racist (???) about any of the responses here. In fact, I can't tell all of you how proud I am of our site and community for taking the time to post thorough and constructive comments on the author's short story. I can't think of any other forum on the web (that's not writing-focused) that would have such detailed and in-depth responses posted nearly instantantly after the original post.

Now if you'll excuse me I need to try and salvage my rearranged honeymoon :)