Disabilities now ruling out candidates?

Man, that is sick! McCain can’t even lift his arms above his shoulders, he wasn’t able to ride a bike with his daughter because he couldn’t bend his knees. He had just about every bone in his body broken. I don’t even know how he writes! He has explained this before but Obama still goes after it geeze.

You are absolutely right, stick to the REAL ISSUES not this petty crap. Obama don’t make me bring up your spiritual mentor again!

“spiritual” is about all one could say about Barry’s faith…

In an interview he had in 2004 with the Chicago-Sun Times he “draws from Christian Faith, but that he had other eastern influences in his life as well” He never stuck it down to “I believe in God and that Jesus is the savior”.

When asked about Triniy and whether he attended he said:
“Yep. Every week. 11 oclock service. Ever been there? Good service.”

When asked “Who is Jesus to you?” he laughed nervously and gave this answer…

“Right.
Jesus is an historical figure for me, and he’s also a bridge between God and man, in the Christian faith, and one that I think is powerful precisely because he serves as that means of us reaching something higher.

And he’s also a wonderful teacher. I think it’s important for all of us, of whatever faith, to have teachers in the flesh and also teachers in history.”

Obama is a man of “faith” because he has to be, not because he chooses to be… when he talks of his “faith” it’s through him, not through God. His idea of “sin” is going against HIS values.

So technically NOT having an abortion could be construed as a sin with that logic.

Sorry Barry, I didn’t just fall off the turnip truck yesterday.

On the disabilities front… did we not have a President who could not even WALK on his own?

Now it’s daft to even think a man could run this country without the ability to comb his hair or ride his bike? Boy, we’re pathetic if that’s the case.

James — you have to get with the Dems thought process on this one. They say McCain is lying about the extent of his injuries! Want proof? He flew fighter jets after returning from Vietnam forty years ago. Ergo, if he could fly a jet after being tortured, he can use a computer today.

Go visit our buddy Len at First Door on the Left; he’s got it all figured out.

“His idea of “sin” is going against HIS values.”

Please, please, please don’t open up that can of worms. Kant’s Universal Maxim should be enough to begin understanding anothers POV, regardless of whether we agree with it or not.

As for the email, that’s the kind of crap that completely turns me off from the political process.

Give me a break… you can’t “go against your values”.

To do so would be simply redefining those values or acknowledging that they were wrong. Either way it’s simply moving the bar to accommodate or rationalize a behavior or decision.

Is he suggesting that he is not in control of himself? If so, I don’t feel I want someone leading my country that’s not even in control of his own personal values.

I wasn’t aware until a day after Obama launched the McCain email attack that he actually physically cannot do so. It’s all good in the hood, though, because he invented the Blackberry (sorry, couldn’t resist).

James, are you saying that *any* eastern influence is bad and automatically negates his Christian faith? I don’t understand how people definitively attach Obama to everything Wright has ever preached about, but McCain *actively seeking* Hagee’s endorsement (before rejecting it) as well as Palin quoting a white supremicist never gets called out. It’s a double-standard.

Jesus is my teacher and I am content with the answer you quoted Obama gave. How the heck do you link NOT having an abortion with being against Obama’s values? What is your response to the fact that the right’s preference is to *criminalize* abortion, regardless of the situation of the pregnancy?

It seems like you are completely undermining the notion of being spiritual, when being spiritual is one of the three major tenets of the Christian faith. It’s called the Holy Spirit, and it’s part of the Trinity. It’s the part of God that He’s instilled in us to guide us and to connect us to Jesus and to God, the other two parts of the Trinity. Abortion may be wrong in God’s eyes but so is not caring for the poor, in fact Jesus places the MOST importance on this. “And whatever you do for the least of these, you have done for me.” So all this wielding God-hot-button issues (abortion, gay marriage) over Obama like the Republicans are experts at doing is losing its effectiveness. The evangelicals are starting to resist being shamed into it, thank God (so to speak).

Obama suggests that he cannot control *other people*, not himself. Republicans view it black and white, and Obama doesn’t.

(Emphasis added by me:)

“Democracy demands that the religiously motivated translate their concerns into universal, rather than religion-specific, values. It requires that their proposals be subject to argument, and amenable to reason. I MAY BE OPPOSED TO ABORTION for religions reasons but if I seek to pass a law banning the practice, I cannot simply point to the teachings of my church or evoke God’s will [*COUGH* PALIN ON THE WAR]. I will have to explain why abortion violates some principle that is accessible to people of all faiths, including those with no faith at all. Now this is going to be difficult for some who believe in the inerrancy of the Bible, as many evangelicals do. But in a pluralistic democracy, we have no choice. Politics depends on our ability to persuade each other of common aims based on a common reality. It involves the compromise, the art of what’s possible. At some fundamental level, religion does not allow for compromise. It’s the art of the impossible. If God has spoken, then followers are expected to live up to God’s edicts, regardless of the consequences. To base one’s life on such uncompromising commitments may be sublime, but to base our policy making on such commitments would be a dangerous thing.”
-B.O.

Also, I don’t think any of the Dems have continued to question McCain’s war service. I think it’s more of the issue of … “Hey, stop using that as a wild card.” You want to stick to the issues? Okay, let’s talk about issues - and stop using your POW experience to skirt talking about the issues.

James, are you saying that *any* eastern influence is bad and automatically negates his Christian faith?

I am. Jesus said the only way to the father/heaven is through me. That is following HIS word not some eastern religions, you can not pick and choose what you want to belive, it is all or nothing, Jesus makes that clear.

I don’t understand how people definitively attach Obama to everything Wright has ever preached about, but McCain *actively seeking* Hagee’s endorsement (before rejecting it)

Wright was Obamas Pastor. Obama called him his spiritual mentor, he married them, baptized his children. He said he never missed a Sunday, he said they were great sermons. He went there for 20 some years. If I don’t agree with a pastors theology I will not attend his/her church. period. Hagee was not McCains pastor, McCain never attended his church. Huge Difference.

It seems like you are completely undermining the notion of being spiritual, when being spiritual is one of the three major tenets of the Christian faith

What are the other two tenets?

Jesus says that the everything in the Bible boils down to two commandments:

Luke 10:27 (New International Version)
He answered: ” ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind’; and, ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’”

That is the basis of our faith.

And finally, if you are a Christian, Muslim, Jew, Mormon, or Buddhist, your faith HAS to shown in EVERYTHING you do. Your Faith is who you are. If you are against abortion you are against abortion. You can not turn your faith on and off for political convenience. He thinks it’s wrong and a sin but he thinks it’s ok for people to have them? That does not make sense at all to me.

Nick summed my point up well. Ask anyone of faith if they have a on/off switch…

If Obama is against abortion he needs to buck his party and vote his beliefs. He hasn’t and that makes me wonder what else he holds dear, that he might be repressing for political gain.

The evangelicals are starting to resist being shamed into it

…and where are you getting THIS from?

For James: “Obama works to mobilize ‘Christian Left’”

You’ll notice Brian McLaren is one of his advisors. My church small group recently went through one of his books together.

For Nick/James:

What I am saying is, there are certain Christians that won’t let what other men (red Christians) believe is definitively aligned with Christianity sway their view. As a member of the Christian left, I am of the view that if Jesus were here today - he would not be a Christian as we know it today. He spent his time on Earth not condemning man (I came to this world not to condemn but to bring life), he came to be a living, human example. This is not to say that abortion is not wrong; it is merely saying that to force one’s Christian beliefs on others who do not believe the same way is to actually do a disservice to the spreading of the gospel. Telling others what they can do and not do as a matter of legislation is completely different than what we choose to do ourselves as an outpouring of The Spirit. Do you *really* think that criminalizing abortion is a benefit to humanity? That girls won’t have more back-alley abortions? Jesus himself was against religiosity. Legislating idology is 100% up that alley.

About Eastern influence - you confuse my usage of influence as being synonymous with being contradictory to Jesus being the Way and the Life. I said “influence,” not equal representation between Eastern religions and Christianity. Do not other religions value love? Isn’t it possible that God implanted our ability to love others and even though the other religions aren’t *fundamentally* true - this is how they also are experiencing love as a phenomenon? Values between religions are not 100% mutually exclusive. They never are.

It saddens me that there is such outright selective hearing on connecting Wright with Obama because he was his pastor. I mean, really? Okay, I guess you can play that game … with Sarah Palin’s pastor/witch doctor.

Sorry - I meant “ideology” instead of “idology.”

I wouldn’t say there AREN’T evangelical Democrats or anything like that but that article was too riddled with “trying to”, “working on”, “attempting” for it to be a definitive proof of any kind of shift left by Christian voters.

I don’t even pretend to know what Jesus would think or do “if” he were alive today as it’s all just playing what if with words so I won’t even get into all that.

James,

Yeah, it’s not a “definitive” shift and if you look at the numbers in the article, it’s only really a 10% shift at most. (Self-defined evangelicals for Bush vs. for McCain.) I’m hesitant to even “label” myself as an evangelical - so there’s that sampling error in itself. I wouldn’t argue that the numbers validate the shift or not. It’s just my expressing that though technically I’m a Christian, your typical evangelical Christian would actually probably invalidate my belief based on how I vote. I (and a lot of friends of mine) are tired of that.