How Important Is Japanese Approval/Acceptance of Western Manga?

May 16th, 2008 at 9:20 am

Not answering the question u bolded at the end, but I personally do not approve of OEL manga since they are not done by Japanese. I’m not saying that OEL manga is definitely inferior because they are done by non-Japanese authors but rather, becuase they are not authentic enough. Sure, I have not read any OEL manga, but do any of them contain really Japanese stuff like Shoujo-ai, moe etc. etc. I would rather read an indie graphic novel (like the Sandman) than an OEL manga. Frankly, they are marketing stunts to capitalise on the exploding popularity of manga in America right now.

2 | aXL99

May 16th, 2008 at 10:13 am

I’d say no. Why should they need Japanese approval for the things they do?

It goes both ways. Some comic readers shun manga in a similar way some manga readers shun comics. Mostly in regards to visual or storytelling style.

The hint of xenophobia aside in this case, so what if manga is popular in North America? What matters most in the end is the quality of content. The audience, or at least those curious and enthusiastic enough, owe it to themselves to attempt being more savvy about what’s out there to read.

3 | Fuego999

May 16th, 2008 at 10:39 am

I’ve read many OEL manga, they suck, but truth is i read comics most of my younger years, so i wouldn’t care about nobody’s approval to buy a manga, if i open it and i like it, i will buy it regardless of it’s origins.
And it’s my opinion but if it’s not made in Japan it shouldn’t be called manga at all.

4 | Hypertoast

May 16th, 2008 at 2:35 pm

@Fuego999: I agree with you wholeheartly. I don’t think that “american manga” is all that good. (have you read that manga that tokyopop was promoting so much? I think it was called peach fuzz or something. It was bad. That’s all I can say about it.)

I don’t think they need Jpapnese support, in fact, I don’t think they should associate it with manga at all. It is extremely easy to tell which country it’s from, and that’s simply becuase there mediums are different. That’s not going to change.

5 | Rachel

May 16th, 2008 at 2:38 pm

@chua, the OEL I’ve read adhere pretty well to the mores of manga. To discount the entire branch of it as “inferior” without reading a single one based simply because they’re not made in Japan is a bit shortsighted. @aXL99, I agree people should be more savvy. There’s a lot out there and things really shouldn’t be judged so dismissively. It smacks of elitism.

@Fuego999, what was it about the OEL you didn’t like?

@Hypertoast, there are a lot of OEL manga done by Australians and New Zealanders, not just Americans, and some artists are so good, it’s hard to differentiate them from the Japanese. Just go on Deviant Art. That place is a true showcase of anime/ manga talent from around the globe. Many non-Japanese artists have perfected their craft and are waiting for a chance to publish their work, but it’s a tough market right now.

Just because a mangaka is Japanese doesn’t equal an automatic win. There are many native manga out there that are terrible. I honestly believe someday the market will be more accepting of non-Japanese manga.

6 | Caitlin

May 16th, 2008 at 6:55 pm

I think Korean manga has meet a small acceptance in Japan so with the right marketing and push, I don’t see why US manga couldn’t do the same. For me, it’s not that important where it came from, unless there’s cultural references in there that are hard to translate. That’s the only time I can see where the country of origin would make a difference.

7 | Fuego999

May 16th, 2008 at 6:55 pm

I don’t think anyone here said that everything made in Japan = good. Back in the day i loved the art of people like Erik Larsen, Jim Lee and yes, even McFarlane, i don’t read marvel anymore because today’s publications are just sad, compared to what i had when i was a kid.

In my personal experience OEL is very crude they try ‘too hard’ to look like real manga, they cram every stereotype character and every anime cliche as they can, - you’re right there’s many talented people out there - but if they really have what it takes why try to copy something just to appeal the masses?, why not just make your own work.
I buy a lot of manga but there’s no way i’m gonna buy some guys crude drawings and ripoff plot just because there’s characters with big eyes and small mouths on it.
To summarize would i pay for this?:
http://www.megatokyo.com/extra/mt_v05-finalcover-v02.jpg
hell no!, Would i pay for this?:
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q166/iagainstcomics/hellboymak.jpg
hell yeas and it isn’t even manga.
As for your last comment:
>>I honestly believe someday the market will be more accepting of non-Japanese manga.
I don’t think it’ll happen, unless they call it something else.

8 | Markusss

May 17th, 2008 at 7:20 pm

“Not answering the question u bolded at the end”, why not ? lol

9 | JO

May 17th, 2008 at 11:00 pm

They shouldn’t make or export American manga.

10 | sarah

May 18th, 2008 at 7:52 am

i can’t believe you mentioned megatokyo!! that’s like, one of the few decent OEL that there are. And besides, i thought that they were bringing Megatokyo to Japan? i read that in Newtype several months ago… But it is true, most OEL have subpar art, or inconsistent art, which is just, more or less, worse than the worst art i’ve seen in japanese manga. I think Dramacon is one of the other really good OEL, i haven’t purchased it yet, but just based on art alone i think she just does great! i’ve read her manga in cosmogirl! also. I think that most Korean mangas have only decent art, it seems only slightly more credible. i buy them sparingly. Hotel Africa, is really awesome though. oh and not just the art, but Korean manga storylines are frequently really hard to follow. like I.N.V.U. OH my goodness that manhwa is a mess!

11 | Michelle

May 18th, 2008 at 1:57 pm

I think it’s ridiculous how people won’t read OEL because they’re OEL. What does it matter? I mean, will you not eat say, french pastries just because a French baker didn’t make it? I mean, yes, French bakers MIGHT make it better, because they have more experience, and know more about the pastries, but there might be others that trump it.

And OEL creators bring something new to the table, you must remember that. A lot of people read manga to get immersed in the Japanese culture. Obviously, the Japanese people take THAT part for granted. Likewise, OEL creators would take the art, and add their own styles, flavors, and also the country they live in, therefore adding its own bonus. They’re not trying to copy manga. They’re INSPIRED by it, just like some manga creators were once inspired by Disney. It doesn’t make it any worse than if it was solely created and thought of by yourself. Ever heard of someone saying, “If I’m great, it’s because I have stood on the shoulders of great men”?

Furthermore, It doesn’t matter as long as the art is expressive, whether it’s manga-inspired, or “American” style. It doesn’t matter as long as the storyline is great. And can you actually label a style exclusively to a country?

Personally, I don’t care who creates it. Comics, manga. OEL. As long as I enjoy it, I’m fine. Just because it’s inspired by something else, just because it’s different doesn’t mean it’s inspired. Judge each book by itself. And about whether or not they should get an approval of the Japanese, I suppose so. It’ll help the manga purists, it’ll tell that the Japanese is open minded, willing to share their art style with the rest of the world. That their art style is so GOOD that it’s inspired others. And that the OEL manga is so good that the original creators actually like and enjoy it. So that people won’t just put an OEL manga down, thinking automatically that it’s trash.

Manhwa is entirely another case. It’s art style if you notice is different from OEL manga and from manga in general. That’s what makes all these branches unique. NO ONE would read it if it was a clone. That’s why even with manga, people always exclaim for unique, non-generic art style that is expressive and well-done, after all. You can have your own favorite art styles, but as long as the art style is easy to read, and convey emotions well, I’m sold. You just have to get USED to an art style. I can’t imagine people were always keen on chibis and big eyes either.

Manhwa can’t be clumped together either. INVU and Hotel Africa are only 2 manhwas. I adore Ice Kunion’s (now part of Yen Press’s) releases. Saying manhwa is always hard to read shows ignorance.

12 | Michelle

May 18th, 2008 at 2:04 pm

@Fuego-By the way, megatokyo is actually very good. Don’t judge based on the art. They’re not all rip-offs. Not all the plots are bad. And I would hate clones, but if you are simply inspired by an art style, and then make it your own, then I’m perfectly fine with it. I mean, you’d have to condemn a lot of manga creators and American comic creators then, since they have their own inspirations from their favorite creators than.

And who ever said the art has to be crude?

Lots of Japanese manga are trash. Lots of OEL are trash. But there are gems. Manga in the US usually have a good enough standard since they HAVE to be good to be licensed, but lately there’s been a lot of trash too. So you have to judge by the book itself.

Wirepop.com has some nice up-and-coming artists with great art styles. Unique by obviously manga inspired. The dramacon series might seem crude at first, but it’s so unique and full of personality you come to realize that’s just how the artist draw, and it works to the book’s quirkiness.

13 | sarah

May 18th, 2008 at 5:08 pm

But i didn’t say that it is always hard to follow, i said frequently. not the same thank you. and those were only 2 i mentioned as examples, not the only 2 i’ve ever read. why would you even mention Hotel Africa? I said i liked it. how is saying i liked one but not the other, lumping korean manga together? I have Angel Diary, 5 volumes, and i’m still not really sure what’s going on. And i have Chocolat 4 volumes and sometimes i don’t understand how it transitions from one part to the next. i also have Bride of the Water God, and Forest of the Gray City, where very little happens and it puts me to sleep. So i’m sorry, but from what is available to me i’m still not majorly impressed with what’s been licensed.
But i just find that transitions in korean manwhas to not be very specfic, and it sometimes feel like random sceens popping up, without any real flow.

14 | framemory

May 18th, 2008 at 10:44 pm

it doesn’t matter as long as a product is high caliber. Interestingly, I see many crappy Japanese manga trump well written OEL in the market. Sad to say, many OEL fail based on the fact they are OEL.

15 | Rachel

May 19th, 2008 at 9:01 am

@JO, why shouldn’t there be American manga and why shouldn’t it be exported? @Caitlin, I think local cultural references would be a major selling point for the general public in the States. The average American has no clue about many of the idiosyncrasies unique to Japan. It might be too weird for them to understand and would hence lead to fewer sales.

@Fuego999, I don’t think Western mangaka “copy” Japanese manga. It’s a style of illustration. That would be like saying the Expressionist or Renaissance artists copied each other. It would be more akin to inspiring than copying.

@sarah, I’ve seen a fair share of published OEL and even met a few of the artists who make them. I’ve seen their work and it’s not sub par in the least. I’m wondering if the Western name on the book subconsciously influences people into judging it even before they read it.

@Michelle, don’t forget that manga has its own brand of storytelling which should be incorporated into OEL. The visual emphasis on stress (sweat drops) fear (wiggly arms) and all that jazz is part of what makes manga, manga. If that gets taken away, I think that would have an impact on the “manga-ness” of a book.

But I agree with what you’re saying, wholeheartedly. If more foreign mangaka take the visuals to heart, it would add that dimension to the manga that may be lacking in other, not so good OEL.

16 | Jodin

May 31st, 2008 at 6:19 am

I think that manga is more of a style or medium, rather than an art form that is directly associated with one country. Of course Japan created manga, and that most Japanese manga tends to be infinately better than the majority of OEL.

But OEL has a chance, it’s just a matter of adaption, manga is a style, just like how music has styles like rock or jazz. If OEL manga actually had a more authentic feel to it, it wouldn’t suffer as much as it does in Japan.

The issue is not that Japan should or shouldn’t accept OEL manga, but that OEL should accept the form as it is. If it ain’t broke, don’t try to “fix” it and create a massacre of western, stereotypical, cliche’ garbage.

Also, Kodansha is starting to improve the general Japanese opinion on OEL manga. Through its international manga competition. If good OEL manga can get out there, then there’s nothing stopping us western mangaka. Eventually we won’t have the word “western” or “foreign” names tied to our titles. Just don’t try to change what’s already perfect and we won’t be complaining about our lack of recognition or respect.

17 | Rachel

May 31st, 2008 at 1:35 pm

@Jodin, I agree it is an art and a style. The one thing I think Americans could do to improve their manga technique is to understand the culture (traditional and pop) of the people who created it. That way, the manga would have a more “authentic” feel. Let’s face it, Westerners weren’t raised in this art the way Japanese are- we have to work for it. But I do think if dedicated artists do work at it, they can achieve the same look as Japanese manga, and even add to the style if they’re really good.

18 | heather

July 2nd, 2008 at 2:21 pm

That’s an interesting question that I have pondered frequently.
I don’t care where my manga comes from, I genuinely don’t.
I love to both read and draw/write manga and watch anime and as a westerner its disheartening to hear that prejudice can be aimed towards OEL, although its not entirely unexpected and it is quite understandable.
I think there’s a significant culture barrier if I’m honest. I could write a HUGE argument about it all but I’m not going to because I won’t be saying what you don’t already know or feel.
I’m willing to give everything a chance. I care about beautiful art, stories that capture you and worlds you can lose yourself in. I don’t care if that world was created by someone Japanese, someone English or Someone from Pilar De La Horadada. It doesn’t bother me, and I think people need that attitude.

And I’d like to add…
It’s sad we live in a close minded society. I read some of the comments saying how OEL isn’t authentic etc etc etc and that’s why it’s ‘bad’.
So what, manga originally came from Japan. So did sushi. It doesn’t mean westerners can’t appreciate it and vice versa for some western cultures that have become significant in Japan.
Like I said, it’s disheartening, but sadly, not unexpected.

19 | Rachel

July 7th, 2008 at 12:16 pm

@heather, it is disheartening, and goes to show the level of elitism some people have. I believe time will change this attitude, that and possibly the distribution companies’ decisions on which manga to carry.

20 | Michael

August 6th, 2008 at 4:59 pm

I think OEL manga can do well in Japan. Beside, I found out that there are Japanese audiences who wants to read manga not made in Japan. I recalled UK’s Manga Shakespeare got a lot of excellent review in Japan. I have faith on OEL manga market, if they can’t survive then no manga made in other part of the world would survive (Japan is not included).

21 | Kamili

November 4th, 2008 at 6:42 pm

I agree that non-Japanese people should be able to create manga-influenced comics and that they should judged on a case by case basis. But let’s be honest here. Manga is the Japanese word for comic, so calling anything a manga that’s not from Japan is simply inaccurate. Non-Japanese comics should be called “manga-influenced” or “manga-inspired” because that’s what it is. I’m not saying it’s always the case, but i agree that many times the manga-like drawing style is used as a gimick to capitalize off of the popularity of manga and anime in the US. If you draw in that style (I do), then fine, but don’t call it what it’s not.

Also, I’ve read a lot of manga-influenced comics and not one of them is even on the same level as a GOOD manga. MegaTokyo is horrible and I’ve seen several others that seem to, intentionally or not, mock Japanese culture. Others are just sad attempts at copying Japanese drawing styles and throwing in generic stereotypes and “cultural references” for the sake of “authenticity”. It’s not elitist to dislike something if you have a legitamate reason. I’m tired of people playing the “Elitist” or “Purist” card every time someone disagrees with them. Everyone’s entitled to their own opinion.

So draw in manga style, do your thing and don’t worry about what others think. But just like rap and rock music (which have been copied and “reinvented” so many times that people are now trying to act like they weren’t invented by black people) let’s not forget where they came from and who does it the best.

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How Important Is Japanese Approval/Acceptance of Western Manga?

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