WingColors

I've found that these tools actually make my grammar worse because I see the red underline fix the word and think that the problem is fixed without reading the other words around it. For example:

While sitting on the porch I looked over at giorl who smiled back seductively.

I see that "girl" is misspelled and go back to fix it without realizing that I'm missing either a "the" or "a". However, I've always had trouble proofreading my own work, but someone else's is no problem at all.

With all computers and the internet has to offer why, oh why, would anyone allow that to happen???

It has ZERO to do with the availability of tools that hold your hand and more with a complete failure on the part of our educational system to instill a sense of personal pride in EDUCATION.

I love learning things and one of my BIGGEST peeves is someone who poo poo's being smart and people who cannot speak or spell correctly. There's a girl @ my office that speaks like she has a 6th grade English education and knows nothing about anything that isn't related to fashion or popular culture. (She thought I was making a sexual comment when I said something about a puffer fish the other day).

Hell, I was even ridiculed at my job for taking a lunch break to pick up a newly released novel. Apparently it was funny that I read.

I wouldn't say that spelling errors are a thing of the past more than crutches are a thing of the future.

I'm not a native speaker of English, so when I have to write "mischievous", "sacrilegious" or "hemorrhage", I'm happy to have a spelling checker right within my browser.

But it shouldn't matter; I check anyway. When you misspell "that" or "the" repeatedly, that's borderline lazy. Why would I make the effort to read what you have to say when you don't find it necessary to proofread - even just once, even just quickly?

No computer in the world could change that - unless it had steel fangs and tied you to a skyscraper.

@Scrivs:

I've always had trouble proofreading my own work, but someone else's is no problem at all

True, that is a classic. And it's why professional copy should always be proofread by at least two editors, and any other text you think is important (job applications, for instance) could easily do with three or so friends reading over it.

PS, Scrivs: who sed teh giorl looked bakc seductivly? Perhaps she was jsut nauseaus?

It has ZERO to do with the availability of tools that hold your hand and more with a complete failure on the part of our educational system to instill a sense of personal pride in EDUCATION.

That has less to do with the educational system, per se, and more to do with a culture which stigmatizes intelligence as being uncool or even shameful, even to the point of saying it's "not manly" or "it's OK, you're just a girl" (and I've heard both in actual conversation). Still, I will agree with you that the emphasis on bringing up the underachievers to a normal level and not cultivating gifted students, that mediocrity is so celebrated while intellectual excellence and superiority are not matters of "polite" conversation, is a MAJOR flaw within our system.

I remember when I worked at a Barnes and Noble, a kid came to the register picking up an astronomy book for someone. "I'm not into this nerdy stuff, he told me."

"You like football?" I asked. (He looked the type, wearing an Emmit Smith jersey.)

"Yeah."

"So do I. Love it. And I like this kind of stuff, too."

The kid looked at me like I'd suddenly spawned a second head. Note that I'm a pretty big guy. At that time, especially, when I was hitting the gym 6 times a week, and playing football. Weighed 265 at the time.

"Remember: the richest of the rich are always nerds," I finally told him. I hated to have equated intelligence and money, but at the time it seemed the only way to tie the two in the kid's head.

I've been in classrooms where the teacher took the side of those who were picking on a "nerdy" kid for picking a book they deemed too "smart".

THAT floored me, that an EDUCATOR would side with the stupid ones.

I've had to explain the smart AND strong thing to many people and yes... they do look at you like you're growing odd appendages. It's REALLY sad but brains does have its revenge in that it's the smart ones that DO usually end up running the world.

Not trying to play mod here, but maybe start a new note about educators/teachers who encourage the wrong qualities in children?

I like the original point here: why don't people bloody look at their spelling checkers when they're everywhere these days; why don't they use FF's built-in spelling checker but just muck about instead?

I mean: if you blog, the written word is what you're about; how can you not care about your writing then?

@Nils: Because people think that they can excuse bad grammar when blogging or writing on the Web. (Examples: MySpace, email.) It's as if the web has allowed them to eschew professionalism* for "my buddy, the reader."

* Used spell check when spelling professionalism.

I love spelling checkers, I follow it to the letter especially when I'm writing a blog post, even when I'm typing a message on IM's (Pidgin has spellchecking abilities).

What I do fear however is our utter dependency on spellcheckers to correct our spelling. I mean, how many of us actually look back at what's been corrected and take into account the spelling of what we mistyped?

I know I do now, I don't want to be caught dead being unable to spell properly on paper simply because I overused technology to help me in the beginning.

What I do fear however is our utter dependency on spellcheckers to correct our spelling.

I assume we've all heard of dictionaries, right? I haven't used a spell-checker for years (purposefully, that is; I right-click the odd red-underlined word) because they're too stupid to rely on. Ditto x1000 for grammar checking.

Learn to spell and type, rather than learning to use a spell-checker.

@Gnorb: I fear you're right. Sad though, because writing is what we do - in whatever shape or form. Why not do it well? I mean, why would you put up crappy pictures on Flickr when most people make an effort? I just don't understand.

@Kami: true, that's why professional writers will always study their subject matter and read: papers, novels, practical usage guides... That's what sets them apart.

Perhaps, in time, the distinction between pro and amateur will turn up again. We all blog now, but only those who care to care will stick out as worthwhile?

Learn to spell and type, rather than learning to use a spell-checker.

One of my goals for 2008 is to improve my grammar. It took me a while for me to figure out why. Reading online (surrounded by poor grammar) vs. reading books (surrounded by more accurate grammar) I started to become lax, relying too much on technology than my brain. I said many times I am horrible at editing because I auto-correct my mistakes. Instead of relying on technology I need to force my brain to see my words as they are written.

One problem with spell checkers: they don't catch issues like their/there, your/you're, effect/affect, etc.

@Tyme:

One problem with spell checkers: they don't catch issues like using their/there, your/you're, effect/affect, etc.

It's true, but I can never get my head around people making mistakes like that. When I see the words 'affect' and 'effect' entire worlds open up before me (figure of speech, obviously) and I see those concepts. I could never ever misspell them. It'd be like spelling c-a-t for dog...

Read, read, read, that's the ticket. Until those words become meaningful, not just look-alikes you need to keep apart out of practicality.

Grammatical errors like "effect/affect" misuses can only be improved by reading a lot of good literature. The more you're familiar with the words and their synonyms, the less likely you are in using the wrong words.

I know I don't have the perfect grammar. I do mix up my future tenses and lord knows what all the tenses are, but I try at least to correct them by rereading it again and again.

Thanks all for your responses. I suppose the main point that all this boils down to is that: people don't care about spelling (and grammar).

I too was teased back in Elementary/Middle/High school for actually trying to learn. Thankfully the teachers weren't the ones doing the teasing.

The class I originally referenced was a upper level college class at an University, you would think that <i>those</i> people would be the ones to care about misspellings and/or grammar.

I can't say I expect everyones grammar to be perfect, because of course mine isn't even close. But I do expect people to have enough pride in themselves to care about how they are being represented within their own writing.

I too was teased back in Elementary/Middle/High school for actually trying to learn. Thankfully the teachers weren't the ones doing the teasing.

I think RightOn just comes from the country's worst educational district, where teachers actively seek to make people dumberer. Maybe they, too, hate public education.

(Sorry, but I never had a teacher tease me for trying to better myself. In fact, they all encouraged it, sometimes with a zealotry which my put on high alert my disdain for authority.)

Well thankfully the incident I mentioned earlier was an isolated one (as far as I know) and the student it was aimed at was not me, for the record.

Sadly Gnorb, I see sickening reports of the rapid decline in our countries educational system all the time and they're not restricted to one region or state.

When I see the words 'affect' and 'effect' entire worlds open up before me

*tee hee*

@RightOn: Agreed that the system is in need of an overhaul. C'mon, I live in Florida. COMPLETELY agreed. However, your position tends to be to eliminate public education altogether, while I vehemently oppose that position because I feel it to be a step backward. And, as Nils suggested, starting another note on this particular matter would likely be the best way to discuss this, instead of further hijacking this thread.

starting another note on this particular matter would likely be the best way to discuss this, instead of further hijacking this thread.

Agreed

RightOn: I was reading through some of your responses and that really sucks. That sorta situation reminds me of where in which there were two people in our class who made a lot of noise and always asked ridiculous questions.

They ended up doing very well in the class. So there in lies the question: what is knowledge? It's something that I wonder about. I mean as Harry Potter said, fighting the dark arts isn't all about memorization and facts, it is about having the guts to pull those awesome things off.

I clipped an article a while back that attempts to explain how our "crappy" education system can support such an advanced economy.

Samuelson argues that it is our ability to give second chances to folks who didn't do so well in high school. Pretty cool if you ask me.

It's difficult for technologies to perform the spell-checking task well unless there are countless people with good writing proficiency employed to do it.

@Kamigoroshi,

Grammatical errors like "effect/affect" misuses can only be improved by reading a lot of good literature.

You are right.I have corrected mine that way.

My spelling is not really weak but I am poor in my sentence structure. Of course, the problem can't possibly be fixed on the Internet unless there is someone who is willing to correct you via personal messaging.

I chanced upon a lady on a forum who had claimed herself as 'Queen of punctuation and grammar'. However, she did a glaring error in one of her later posts: 'The situation has effected many people...'.